This topic is for rules questions and clarifications.

I will do my best to answer any queries you may have.

Nothing is set in stone and if you want to adopt different interpretations, stats etc then you are most welcome to do so. I will attach a following post with some Q & A that I have thought of.

NL

Q: What is the scale of each square ? Can this be worked out by reference to the maximum cannon and machine gun ranges?

A: There is no scale in these terms. As stated in the rules the scale is individual jets and the map represents the portion of sky in which combat takes place. It is important to remember that there is a missing dimension in the game. I call it ‘depth’ (imagine that it is at 90 degrees from the mapboard as you look at it). You can rationalise the lack of a set scale by saying this is impossible to judge due to the ‘depth’ missing dimension.

The Cannon and Machine Gun ranges are just convenient mechanisms to allow the game to work and do not signify scale in terms of feet and yards.

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Q: There is a minimum range for missiles but no maximum range?

A Actually there is a (theoretical) maximum range for missiles. This is the ‘Turns of Flight’ number x 12. However, for a missile to acheive this range you would need to draw (eg) a King, then an Ace, then a King, then an Ace etc for missile movement. Experience of the game will help you decide whether a given missile shot is worthwhile. This is why you are allowed to abort a missile launch after drawing the first reference card for movement. This represents the pilot deciding against launching at a target at the edge of the missile’s envelope (there are times when you need to draw high or low to stand a chance against a distant target).

The minimum range is a game device to reflect the feel of missile combat and gives guns only aircraft an incentive to get in close (as happened historically)

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Q: If an aircraft is allowed to temporarily exit the map via the King of Hearts or the Ace of Spades squares in a scenario and does so, where is it ?

A It has found a temporary safe haven (ie dropped out of sight, into a cloud layer etc)

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Q If an aircraft in cloud is the target for a RH missile can it still use defensive actions against the incoming missile, such as countermeasures? Can it still engage the missile if it enters the target square?

A As the rules stand then yes. (I am open to suggestions on this one)

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Q I am confused about combat prohibitions if aircraft finish in the same square.

A It depends whether the aircraft are of the same side or not.

If ALL the aircraft in the same square are friendly to each other then the following apply:

- only ONE aircraft may have a combat action. The owning player selects which one.
- Enemy aircraft shooting into the square can chose which target(s) to engage as desired

If the occupying aircraft include any on opposing sides then NO aircraft in that square may either shoot or be shot at.

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Q I have just placed my Sun square in 6 Hearts and I have now drawn the 6 of Hearts for a cloud square! What happens?
A The rules do not cover this but there are a couple of options.

1) Ignore the 6H cloud card and draw again;
2) Consider both cards to cancel each other out and leave the square empty or
3) (the option I use) The cloud square takes precedence and blots out the sun for that scenario.

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Q I have a scenario which includes a cloudbank of three adjacent cloud squares. Using the rules I have drawn a card to determine the leftmost square of the cloudbank. I have drawn the 2 of Spades. However there are only two available squares for the cloudbank. What do I do?

A Again, there are a couple of options:

1) Consider the square selected to represent the RIGHTmost square in this case and deploy the other clouds to the left of it or
2) Deploy clouds in the 2S and AS squares and assume that the third extends off map and has no bearing on play.

SOME TIPS FOR A HEADACHE FREE GAME OF INSTANT THUNDER

There is no such thing as the perfect way to play any game and I certainly have no intention of trying to straight-jacket people into playing only in a certain way. I am just passing on a few tips that may come in handy and help to make playing Instant Thunder as relaxing and fun an experience as it was meant to be.

1) Once you are familiar with the game mechanics try to get all information down onto a single log, including flight characteristics for each aircraft in the scenario (the log supplied with the game has space for this). In this way there should never be a reason for you to refer to game rules or charts in play.

2) Note the suggestionabout FACING CONVENTIONS. Note it well. This is the single most important game-aid to avoid confusion, especially with large numbers of aircraft on the board. If you are using counters as opposed to models make sure that there is a definate aircraft ‘facing’ depicted (preferably a top down view) for this purpose.

3) DEPICTING DAMAGE- obviously you can use the log to see the state of a particular aircraft but I find a quick visual aid invaluable. If using Models (I use 1/300, no stands and an ID number painted on the underside of a wing) then a piece of trailing cotton wool denotes a crippled aircraft. I also use a large curtain ring under an aircraft to show it is out of ammo. If using counters then either have a reverse side showing the same aircraft severely damaged or deploy crippled aircraft nose DOWN on the map to denote damage.

4) ENVIRONMENT A base of cotton wool in a given square indicates a cloud and a suitable model denotes the sun square. Alternaitvely use counters fixed in place with Blu-Tack so they will not displace during the game.

5) If you are having difficulty visualising the links between the end of row squares (eg King Spades - Ace of Diamonds etc) then use small self adhesive coloured dots (from stationers). Place these outside the board areas using the same coloured dots for linked squares (eg to the left of the KS square place a green dot and place a green dot to the right of the AD square.) Use different colours for each pair. These serve as a visual reminder as to which squares are linked when an aircraft moves off the end of a row.

I hope the above is of use.

NL

Its a little odd for this to come up so late, but I wanted to make sure of something. I announce the maneuver I want to use (a roll,  a horizontal movement, etc.) and then draw a card to see if it succeeds. However, my friend thinks it works along the lines of draw a card, and declare the maneuver you want if its applicable. Of course, knowing us, its probably a third method in between, where you need to declare roll/zoom first, but V or M is wait and see. So, which way is it?

Hello CA - Thanks for your question.

To quote from the rules: “V and M attempts may be made in any order. There is no obligation to move. An aircraft may solely attempt one type or the other, both or none, at his discretion. A player does not have to specify in which direction any move will be made before he draws the card.”

The player must specify BEFORE drawing a card what he is attempting to do. It will be enough just to say ‘V’ or ‘M’ (I do this mentally for solo games) and then draw a card for it. As you can see above it is NOT required that the player specifies the intended direction of any move until he sees whether the card is succesful. Note that if a draw is succesful then the player is OBLIGED to make the move and cannot cancel it.

There are several examples of movement given in the rules which bear out the above but I will confirm this explicitly in Version 2 of the rules (which I am tinkering with - this will only have cosmetic changes by the way). I hope this answers your question. I think you got it right yourself.

Whilst on the subject I am going to answer a question you didn’t ask in case anybody reading this is wondering.

Q Can I withold some squares of M movement until later in the movement phase to see if my intended V movement is succesful and then add it on (eg If I draw a 4 and am entitled to M movement of up to 4 squares, can I take -say - 2 of them , try for a V and add the remaining 2 squares after I have climbed/dived)?

A No. V and M movements are discrete and self contained actions. In the example above if the aircraft decides to take only two of the squares available as M movement then by doing so he has terminated the M movement for the turn and excess squares are lost. Similarly it is not allowed for players to draw for V and M attempts and THEN decide the order he wishes to take them. If he declares a V and is succesful he must take the V immediately BEFORE drawing for an M (or vice versa)

NL

FORMATION INFORMATION!

Q How do you keep track of who is due to be deployed in formation if using these optional rules?

A After removing all aircraft from the board at the end of a turn, line up the models/counters for each side. Draw a card for each to see if they pass the formation test (as per the rules this number varies depending on crew ability). Each one that passes put to one side in the formation pile. Aircraft that fail are placed in the ?singleton? pile. Then decide if the aircraft in the formation piles actually go on to make a formation or formations and place them together. Any aircraft can be switched to the singleton pile at this stage, if desired. Once this has been done, draw cards for all singletons and deploy. Then draw a single card for each designated formation (if both sides have formations deal these face down). Proceed to deploy the formations in accordance with the rules.

Q What are the benefits of formations in the game?

A As can be seen above, formations are deployed AFTER singletons. As there is some leeway in which adjacent square (if any) is used when deploying a formation this imparts a tactical advantage when deploying (and don?t forget if you have an ACE in the formation you get the benefit of TWO or more deployment cards to choose from!).  Although Formation rules apply only to deployment (there is no requirement for aircraft to remain together in movement) single aircraft attacking a formation may be deterred as the chances are that one of the formated aircraft will get to shoot back, even if the attacker scores a kill.

Q Are there any drawbacks, tactically, to using formations?

A I can see two. If you are chasing down a singleton then a card may place the whole formation at a distance from the target, lessening the chance of a kill. The other disadvantage is that if you place two formated aircraft in the same square (a requirement with 3 or 4-ship formations) and both aircraft subsequently fail to move out of the square then only one can shoot.

Q Aren?t the Formation rules unrealistic?

A Somewhat, yes. In reality a pair of pilots will have trained together as leader and wingman. In the game, however, aircraft A could be paired with aircraft B on turn 1, C on turn 2, D on turn 3 etc. The Formation rules were deliberately left loose like this to comply with the abstract nature of the game and retain fluidity. I HAVE designed some more advanced rules for formations which not only require the players to specify who can formate with who, but applies formation rules to MOVEMENT as well. Again, these go a step further in taking away some of the fluidity of the game. I could post these as an update ? if requested.

Q What happens if formations overlap with each other, including enemy aircraft?

A Nothing. As long as the component aircraft of designated formations are deployed in accordance with the formation rules then the presence of other aircraft (friendly or enemy) in the deployment square(s) has no effect. Opposing aircraft deployed in the same square move in crew ability order, as described in the rules.

Q In a scenario allowing aircraft to leave the board if I draw (say) the Ace of Spades as a formation deployment square, can I deploy other aircraft in the formation Off map (the same applies for King of Hearts) ?

A No ? nice try. Aircraft must be deployed on map. In this case you could only use 2 Spades or A Spades for this formation.

VISUAL PROMPT FOR CREW ABILITY

(This will only work if you are using fairly large squares to accomodate your aircraft)

If using CREW ABILITY optional rules then there is a visual prompt you can use when coming to assess movement or combat for an individual aircraft.

Imagine the square is divided into three equal thirds vertically. When deploying ACE or EXPERIENCED aircraft place it in the TOP third of the square. AVERAGE aircraft are placed in the middle of a square and NOVICE crew are placed in the lower third.

This serves as a handy visual reminder to use the correct performance/combat details for that aircraft.

NL

I’m still getting into this game and have tons of questions.  If I get annoying, just let me know! 

First one (in this thread)...

1.  In the aircraft listing, it stats the guns as C4-3, etc.  The C stands for cannon and the -3 is the damage effect, but what is the 4?  I can’t find that anywhere!

Thanks for the question - feel free to be as ‘annoying’ as you like!

The second number after the ‘C’ or ‘M’ is the number of shots allowed (ie ammo).

Therefore ‘C3-3’ = Cannon/Three shots/effect = -3

Sorry for any confusion.

NL

Started playing Instant Bandits and liking that one too, though thematically a little less than modern jets.  Instead of a rules question, I have a design question which pertains to both versions of the rules.  What was the thinking behind removing all aircraft from the board at the end of each turn?  Does this represent something?  One thing it causes is that there is no way to plan out strategically your next turn(s), but rather have to play the turn tactically based on the random deployment of the cards.

When I started initially playing the drone training scenarios, I somehow missed the rule that you remove all aircraft (except for the drones) from the board and redeploy.  Before I read that I was having a great time chasing the drones around the field and if I knew I couldn’t get within gun range one turn, I could try to set up for the next turn better.  Then I reread the rules (cursed skimming, I’m terrible for it) and found that I needed to take the planes off.  So now, if you deploy way off in the grid away from all other planes you might have absolutely no way to do anything with that plane.

So, I was just curious why that rule is there.

Thanks!

Hello again.

Thanks for the question ? difficult one to answer.

The deploy/redeploy rule was always a design feature from the outset. I envisaged that the positions of the aircraft from turn to turn was a ?snapshot?, over which the players have some positional control via the movement rules. The aircraft are themselves manouevering for an indeterminate amount of time ?between turns?.

I tried a single playtest game where I left the aircraft on the grid from turn to turn. As I suspected the aircraft ended up bunched in the top left hand corner, trying to get the initiative due to height. I didn?t try this again. (To take it a stage further, what would happen if one or more aircraft occupied the King of Hearts Square? Why would any of them vacate the square thereafter? Game over.)

I think the deployment /redeployment adds to the feel of jet combat dogfighting as an arena of fleeting opportunities. True ? that means that ?strategic? planning is not possible but IT is a very tactical game and sometimes even the best pilots and machines will luck out. In any event I think it is darned exciting this way!

Having said all that you are free to play the game how you like; rules and stats can be adopted or discarded. I would be interested to hear how you get on over time if you decide to ditch redeployment.

Many thanks for your thought-provoking question and I look forward to any other comments or queries you may have.

Regards

Nelclaret

Thanks for the response.  You are right, there’s no easy fix to leaving them on the board either.  Interesting problem.  I would like to have some way to keep them on the board so I’ll keep looking at it.  I’ve been playing the “real” way too and like it just fine, I just know my Euro gaming friends would play if there was more strategic element rather than just tactical.  It’s a brilliant game that just keeps being fun, though.

Historically, looking up wasn’t really the problem. Its advanced look-down/shoot down radars for intercepting cruise missiles in the ground clutter that was difficult. The B-1 was originally intended to be high altitude, high speed - but was changed to low level interdiction thanks to missile/radar technology.

Perhaps some rule could be imposed where the higher aircraft shoot first - but the lower ones have a bonus to lock on or dodge.

A simpler solution would just be to dilate time so to speak, and only clear the map every two/three turns. I could see a scenario based on AWACS refresh/sweep rates, where one side doesn’t get to replace its aircraft as often. The one with better intelligences stays on and can position itself, while the other is randomly deployed.

For those really inclined to strategy - play a whole other war game, and break out IT to resolve dogfights when aircraft meet, and then give one side a bonus/free air strike based on the outcome of the air battle. (For a while, I was working on a game where you split you normal point allocation between normal vehicles, and an anti-aircraft rating. Based on the ratio of triple A, one side would get free attacks. The initial bid was in secret, so the degree of air support was a surprise.)

Hi CA

It may be me but the first two paras of your post seem to relate to something else - have I missed something here?

On the other hand your idea of refreshing the map every second or third turn is intriguing…

NL

PS

Aircraft in a lower altitude band DO receive a lock-on bonus when looking at a target in a higher band (+1 per band). Reverse applies if looking at a target in a lower altitude band.

Good ideas, guys.  I noticed that the planes stacked up in the corner too, but now I’m testing out that you keep the planes on the board until one exits off the King of Hearts.  So, they deploy with a random card and then chase each other around (usually up) trying to get a good position until they exit off.  Once they exit, we redeploy.  I’ve tried this twice now and seemed like a nice compromise as there is some strategic elements with the pieces staying on the board for some amount of time.

In my head I imagine dogfighting scenes where planes jockey for position, but then lose sight of each other after a while and show back up.  Not sure how to describe that, but hopefully you get the point.

The secret to being an expert is only speaking when you sound qualified. I was just trying to justify the latter ideas with a real world example of low level interdiction - and thus why a lower aircraft could be granted some in game bonus.

Of course, I forgot such an advantage was already built into the game when I typed the response. So much for sounding like an expert.

One more possibility would be to link the refresh rate to the pilot’s experience. Novices dodge wild across the sky, redeploying each turn, while the experienced pilot slowly works their way to the optimal position. Aces might be prohibitively powerful - unless they redeployed each turn. Slip out of the enemy sights and reappear where they think its best. Thats how the red baron did it, everyone else in the jasta engaged the enemy, he patrolled underneath and picked off any foes who attempted to escape the fight.

I’m quite content with redeployment every turn though. Most of my games are with 70s craft - so a constant shuffle helps with the difficult missile constraints.